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	<title>Comments on: Learning to Write IV</title>
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	<link>http://johnbakersblog.co.uk/learning-to-write-iv/</link>
	<description>Reflections of a working writer and reader</description>
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		<title>By: term</title>
		<link>http://johnbakersblog.co.uk/learning-to-write-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-108383</link>
		<dc:creator>term</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 03 Apr 2008 05:08:37 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnbakersblog.co.uk/?p=232#comment-108383</guid>
		<description>I loved crime fictions too. But now you can read those everywhere in new papers! There are 5-6 crime fictions per day.  It’s horrifying. Sometimes I think about starting to read again children stories. But even there the bad character dies every time! Not that he doesn’t deserve it… but it’s still about death!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I loved crime fictions too. But now you can read those everywhere in new papers! There are 5-6 crime fictions per day.  It’s horrifying. Sometimes I think about starting to read again children stories. But even there the bad character dies every time! Not that he doesn’t deserve it… but it’s still about death!</p>
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		<title>By: crimeficreader</title>
		<link>http://johnbakersblog.co.uk/learning-to-write-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-1941</link>
		<dc:creator>crimeficreader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jun 2006 20:54:19 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnbakersblog.co.uk/?p=232#comment-1941</guid>
		<description>Hello all.  I was trying to pick up on John&#039;s comment &quot;...But the Mahler quotation is much more profound than this. It’s something to take through the day with you...&quot;  I interpreted it as referring to life in general. (And I was having a bad day, hence my reference to call centres.  Perhaps some of my comments here would have been better in a complaint letter to the company concerned...)

John&#039;s post also made me think of this from Wordsworth, in 1807 I think, when he penned the words &quot;...Getting and spending, we lay waste our powers...&quot;.

I do wish we could slow down.  The more we get &quot;in an instant&quot;, the more we seem to expect the same and find that others expect the same from us.  There can be both revelry and serene calm in the joy of anticipation.  In today&#039;s society, I believe that many of us may need to reconnect with the concept of anticipation.

When it comes to reading, and crime fiction in particular for me, there&#039;s page turning and page turning.  Some novels are like fast food and are produced in almost the same way.  Either case does not necessarily represent the best.  An exceptional book and one worth reading is one that appreciates and capitalises on the power of anticipation.  I tend to prefer psychological &quot;thrillers&quot; for this reason.  But neither is that type of book exclusively pursuing that route.

I&#039;ll hang my coat on the honesty hook here.  I started out reading north American crime/thriller fiction, as I was based there at the time.  The books were fast and I devoured them with a speed that would get me some points on my licence, if driving.  (No more please!) I returned to the UK and over the years, I discovered British authors and found that my tastes also changed and that the British way of writing in this genre was different - often slower and often, also simply superb.

What I look for now is the following:
- realism in the story
- characters I can believe in
- good plotting
- evocation of place/setting including the period of time in which the book is set
- a pace that urges me to read more, be it by the minute/hour/day/number of days.

What I also often find is this:
- excellent commentary and insight within the story on specific contemporary issues in society, for the present or the past,
and sometimes
- believable humour (who goes through a day without laughing at something or trying to make light of something?)

I love crime fiction.  It&#039;s my escape route in this world, but it&#039;s also, sometimes, a thought provoking reflection of the world in which we currently live.

Interestingly, my mother used to quote that line from Wordsworth in the 70s.  Written in 1807; it still stands for me.  I believe that if I had teenagers now, those words would be on the tip of my tongue, too.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Hello all.  I was trying to pick up on John&#8217;s comment &#8220;&#8230;But the Mahler quotation is much more profound than this. It’s something to take through the day with you&#8230;&#8221;  I interpreted it as referring to life in general. (And I was having a bad day, hence my reference to call centres.  Perhaps some of my comments here would have been better in a complaint letter to the company concerned&#8230;)</p>
<p>John&#8217;s post also made me think of this from Wordsworth, in 1807 I think, when he penned the words &#8220;&#8230;Getting and spending, we lay waste our powers&#8230;&#8221;.</p>
<p>I do wish we could slow down.  The more we get &#8220;in an instant&#8221;, the more we seem to expect the same and find that others expect the same from us.  There can be both revelry and serene calm in the joy of anticipation.  In today&#8217;s society, I believe that many of us may need to reconnect with the concept of anticipation.</p>
<p>When it comes to reading, and crime fiction in particular for me, there&#8217;s page turning and page turning.  Some novels are like fast food and are produced in almost the same way.  Either case does not necessarily represent the best.  An exceptional book and one worth reading is one that appreciates and capitalises on the power of anticipation.  I tend to prefer psychological &#8220;thrillers&#8221; for this reason.  But neither is that type of book exclusively pursuing that route.</p>
<p>I&#8217;ll hang my coat on the honesty hook here.  I started out reading north American crime/thriller fiction, as I was based there at the time.  The books were fast and I devoured them with a speed that would get me some points on my licence, if driving.  (No more please!) I returned to the UK and over the years, I discovered British authors and found that my tastes also changed and that the British way of writing in this genre was different &#8211; often slower and often, also simply superb.</p>
<p>What I look for now is the following:<br />
- realism in the story<br />
- characters I can believe in<br />
- good plotting<br />
- evocation of place/setting including the period of time in which the book is set<br />
- a pace that urges me to read more, be it by the minute/hour/day/number of days.</p>
<p>What I also often find is this:<br />
- excellent commentary and insight within the story on specific contemporary issues in society, for the present or the past,<br />
and sometimes<br />
- believable humour (who goes through a day without laughing at something or trying to make light of something?)</p>
<p>I love crime fiction.  It&#8217;s my escape route in this world, but it&#8217;s also, sometimes, a thought provoking reflection of the world in which we currently live.</p>
<p>Interestingly, my mother used to quote that line from Wordsworth in the 70s.  Written in 1807; it still stands for me.  I believe that if I had teenagers now, those words would be on the tip of my tongue, too.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://johnbakersblog.co.uk/learning-to-write-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-1930</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jun 2006 13:04:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnbakersblog.co.uk/?p=232#comment-1930</guid>
		<description>Yes, I agree, John, that was Mahler&#039;s point. I&#039;m afraid I was primarily responding to Crimeficreader&#039;s comment.

However, I&#039;m a bit wary of equating pacing in music with that of fiction.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, I agree, John, that was Mahler&#8217;s point. I&#8217;m afraid I was primarily responding to Crimeficreader&#8217;s comment.</p>
<p>However, I&#8217;m a bit wary of equating pacing in music with that of fiction.</p>
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		<title>By: Joel</title>
		<link>http://johnbakersblog.co.uk/learning-to-write-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-1929</link>
		<dc:creator>Joel</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jun 2006 12:56:21 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnbakersblog.co.uk/?p=232#comment-1929</guid>
		<description>I agree with Lee. The kind of novels crimeficreader is talking about sound like the sort I get through so quickly they couldn&#039;t possibly create enough. Namely, I read the first paragraph or sentence and put it straight back on the shelf. I&#039;ve got better things to do than be entertained in a fast-food manner when it comes to reading books. As I chucked my TV in the bin over a decade ago, I have at least all the time I would have spent watching it to read good books for as long as a good book demands. I am not trying to fit it in between other things.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I agree with Lee. The kind of novels crimeficreader is talking about sound like the sort I get through so quickly they couldn&#8217;t possibly create enough. Namely, I read the first paragraph or sentence and put it straight back on the shelf. I&#8217;ve got better things to do than be entertained in a fast-food manner when it comes to reading books. As I chucked my TV in the bin over a decade ago, I have at least all the time I would have spent watching it to read good books for as long as a good book demands. I am not trying to fit it in between other things.</p>
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		<title>By: john baker</title>
		<link>http://johnbakersblog.co.uk/learning-to-write-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-1928</link>
		<dc:creator>john baker</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jun 2006 12:31:59 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnbakersblog.co.uk/?p=232#comment-1928</guid>
		<description>What struck me about the Mahler quote was the insight that slowing down the narrative might allow the reader to &lt;em&gt;see&lt;/em&gt; more. That slowing things down might create the space which allowed the reader to be drawn into the voice of the narrator.
I realize, though, that we are in the realm of technique and that technique is inextricably tied up with individual style.
My original point was rather that the writer of an extended narrative should always make use of alternating pace. As readers we are usually willing to give, and to forgive, much; but if an author makes me yawn it will not be long before I go to sleep or find better company.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>What struck me about the Mahler quote was the insight that slowing down the narrative might allow the reader to <em>see</em> more. That slowing things down might create the space which allowed the reader to be drawn into the voice of the narrator.<br />
I realize, though, that we are in the realm of technique and that technique is inextricably tied up with individual style.<br />
My original point was rather that the writer of an extended narrative should always make use of alternating pace. As readers we are usually willing to give, and to forgive, much; but if an author makes me yawn it will not be long before I go to sleep or find better company.</p>
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		<title>By: Lee</title>
		<link>http://johnbakersblog.co.uk/learning-to-write-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-1923</link>
		<dc:creator>Lee</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Fri, 30 Jun 2006 09:19:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnbakersblog.co.uk/?p=232#comment-1923</guid>
		<description>Crimeficreader, I&#039;m afraid I disagree completely. And even today, many of your very fine novelists take &lt;i&gt;years&lt;/i&gt; to complete a novel. But of course there&#039;s fiction, and then there&#039;s fiction.

And I also think this applies, at least for me, to reading: I am reading slower and slower, savouring what the writer has done. It&#039;s a great pity that so many of the lit blogs seem to suggest that racing through one book in order to get to the next and then the next should be our goal.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Crimeficreader, I&#8217;m afraid I disagree completely. And even today, many of your very fine novelists take <i>years</i> to complete a novel. But of course there&#8217;s fiction, and then there&#8217;s fiction.</p>
<p>And I also think this applies, at least for me, to reading: I am reading slower and slower, savouring what the writer has done. It&#8217;s a great pity that so many of the lit blogs seem to suggest that racing through one book in order to get to the next and then the next should be our goal.</p>
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		<title>By: crimeficreader</title>
		<link>http://johnbakersblog.co.uk/learning-to-write-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-1900</link>
		<dc:creator>crimeficreader</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jun 2006 19:57:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnbakersblog.co.uk/?p=232#comment-1900</guid>
		<description>I&#039;m sorry, John, but for the ever so commercial real world we live in and all that, I think this philosophy would lead to a sacking for &quot;non-performance&quot; or the end of contract, if not a permanent employee.  It just doesn&#039;t translate.

The wonderfully good point of this is: that&#039;s why people seek escapism through novels.  They want a break from the pressures around them and they seek something else and not the finite, and all too sturdy reflection of their mundane and pressured day, on the fictional page.  They seek empathy but they also seek to be released and that&#039;s what fiction does.

Having worked in the hard line, profit seeking commercial world, I can also say this: anticipating (the most important in a good company); responding to and reacting to customer needs often requires some creative thought.  If the &quot;associate&quot; gets it right and the systems facilitate, it will be a practice adopted as routine.

Time does not allow anything.

I called what happened to be a call centre yesterday and I received the verbal script of an outsourced Indian representative.  Not only was it all &quot;off pat&quot;, due to the translated and fixed script, but the purveyor of those words sounded scripted, and also, oddly, robotic.  I wanted to scream down the phone that I needed to speak to a real person.  As it was an insurance CLAIM, I was quickly transferred to someone in the UK, script willing, again.  Sigh...

But when it comes to the basics of day to problems, I have seen this in a call centre in the UK, where I once worked.  Those who are lowly paid still need to think, assess, react and resolve a customer&#039;s problem, creatively on times, where time is of the essence (as it costs money).

The essential thing here, is that TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE.  In reality this means ASAP and not to slow down the process.  As someone who has made a call too, I know that I don&#039;t want a slow process.  I want to be &quot;resolved&quot; right now, this instant in fact, if possible.

For me, that makes Mahler and his music and his thoughts apropriate in a defined set of circumstances, but not all.  It also means that creativity cannot necessarily delay.  

When I started to try and write fiction in the late 90s I had a topical story and plot.  The world moved on so quickly, it left me behind, and the plot.

Mahler&#039;s thoughts may have been true to his day; I argue that his thoughts are, at best, redundant now.  This is another world, a world in which time is of the essence, in the very early new millennium. 

It&#039;s in our leisurely recreational time where we can enjoy a fictional suspension of disbelief, if related to time and if time allows. Otherwise, life&#039;s simply too fast these days to take Mahler at his historic word and believe in his pronouncements, good as they are.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I&#8217;m sorry, John, but for the ever so commercial real world we live in and all that, I think this philosophy would lead to a sacking for &#8220;non-performance&#8221; or the end of contract, if not a permanent employee.  It just doesn&#8217;t translate.</p>
<p>The wonderfully good point of this is: that&#8217;s why people seek escapism through novels.  They want a break from the pressures around them and they seek something else and not the finite, and all too sturdy reflection of their mundane and pressured day, on the fictional page.  They seek empathy but they also seek to be released and that&#8217;s what fiction does.</p>
<p>Having worked in the hard line, profit seeking commercial world, I can also say this: anticipating (the most important in a good company); responding to and reacting to customer needs often requires some creative thought.  If the &#8220;associate&#8221; gets it right and the systems facilitate, it will be a practice adopted as routine.</p>
<p>Time does not allow anything.</p>
<p>I called what happened to be a call centre yesterday and I received the verbal script of an outsourced Indian representative.  Not only was it all &#8220;off pat&#8221;, due to the translated and fixed script, but the purveyor of those words sounded scripted, and also, oddly, robotic.  I wanted to scream down the phone that I needed to speak to a real person.  As it was an insurance CLAIM, I was quickly transferred to someone in the UK, script willing, again.  Sigh&#8230;</p>
<p>But when it comes to the basics of day to problems, I have seen this in a call centre in the UK, where I once worked.  Those who are lowly paid still need to think, assess, react and resolve a customer&#8217;s problem, creatively on times, where time is of the essence (as it costs money).</p>
<p>The essential thing here, is that TIME IS OF THE ESSENCE.  In reality this means ASAP and not to slow down the process.  As someone who has made a call too, I know that I don&#8217;t want a slow process.  I want to be &#8220;resolved&#8221; right now, this instant in fact, if possible.</p>
<p>For me, that makes Mahler and his music and his thoughts apropriate in a defined set of circumstances, but not all.  It also means that creativity cannot necessarily delay.  </p>
<p>When I started to try and write fiction in the late 90s I had a topical story and plot.  The world moved on so quickly, it left me behind, and the plot.</p>
<p>Mahler&#8217;s thoughts may have been true to his day; I argue that his thoughts are, at best, redundant now.  This is another world, a world in which time is of the essence, in the very early new millennium. </p>
<p>It&#8217;s in our leisurely recreational time where we can enjoy a fictional suspension of disbelief, if related to time and if time allows. Otherwise, life&#8217;s simply too fast these days to take Mahler at his historic word and believe in his pronouncements, good as they are.</p>
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		<title>By: Steve Allan</title>
		<link>http://johnbakersblog.co.uk/learning-to-write-iv/comment-page-1/#comment-1896</link>
		<dc:creator>Steve Allan</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 29 Jun 2006 17:11:30 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.johnbakersblog.co.uk/?p=232#comment-1896</guid>
		<description>When I think of pacing I think about the story of one of the first cuts of The Godfather where the studio insisted on a short running time. Apparently that version felt incredibly slow and they let Coppolla have his cut since audience felt it went much faster, even with the extra hour.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>When I think of pacing I think about the story of one of the first cuts of The Godfather where the studio insisted on a short running time. Apparently that version felt incredibly slow and they let Coppolla have his cut since audience felt it went much faster, even with the extra hour.</p>
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